“To those who walk among mountains of corpses not a step nor two will ever be enough. This road of carnage does not allow for one to return… A road without end. But how far will you go?”
I struggle with having symphaty for guts because it makes me angry that we are supossed to feel Bad for him for what happend to casca also stupid fandom thinks he is a Saint or something, the way he is portrayed as manly protagonist protecting gis fragile girlfriend, IDK it grosses me out but also it makes me feel stupid that it grosses me out.
idt you should feel stupid for that, honestly it grosses me out too. It’s a really grating aspect of the current story to me, and I can only hope that the story doesn’t just let him off the hook for his own terrible treatment of Casca, and solidly like, calls into question the whole Big Manly Protector thing. I want to believe it’s still possible lol, and Miura isn’t completely playing the shitty male power fantasy cliche straight.
(I mean in my defense it kinda has already been called into question a few times - like Casca not being able to look at him and the mind journey sequence where Beast of Darkness dog-Guts nearly destroyed Casca himself - just yk, not definitively enough to convince me Miura’ll follow through in any meaningful way.)
But yeah basically the way the story shifted focus after the Eclipse from Guts’ own personal trauma to manpain over Casca even while mistreating her over and over was just unfortunate and really makes it hard for me to feel sympathy for Guts right now too. It sucks.
I saw in the tag of your last reblog that you have « a whole missing scene where Griffith teach Guts how to dance » and this is such a cute idea ! How do you think this would happen ? You often talk about how they have difficulties in the acceptation of their feelings for each other so this type of scene would be so full of mutual pinning and unspoken feelings, it could have so much potential ! I really want to hear your take on this
tyvm for your interest!
lol okay so like, I have this written down actually as a memory in a half-baked fic idea I had ages ago where they all stay in Elfhelm a little while longer, which is probably not going to fit into canon anymore lol. I’ll post the scene because I really have no idea what I was doing with the fic and I’m never going to finish it properly anyway, but I re-read it after getting your ask and I do still kinda like this bit.
Griffith’s palm felt warm against his. It wasn’t the first time Griffith had taken his hand, but those were brief moments, like helping him to his feet after a battle, not… this.
“Ready to try again?”
Guts scowled. Should his hand be firmer against Griffith’s back? He was supposed to be pushing him around, right? But he kept to his tentative brush of fingers and nodded. Griffith began counting a very slow rhythm.
One, two, three; one, two, three; one, two, three.
He took two steps and Griffith started laughing.
“You’re doing this on purpose,” he accused with a grin once he’d caught hold of himself. “You can’t be this hopeless - I’ve seen how graceful you are with a sword in your hand.”
“Then I’ll put my sword in a dress and practice with that instead.”
With a smirk Griffith said, “Would it help if I put on a dress?” and all Guts did was laugh.
“Maybe. We could head into the city, spend the day tryin’ on clothes instead.”
“Never thought you of all people would be so reluctant to learn a new skill.” Griffith stuck his tongue out like a kid, pouting exaggeratedly. “There’s more to life than war, you know.”
“All right, all right, let’s try it again. Which foot do I start with?”
Neither of them had moved their hands in that time. Three little points of contact, like the beats Griffith was counting again, like the years he’d spent with him, like the days until the ball Griffith was trying in vain to convince him to attend.
Griffith’s hair had shone like gold in the sun.
The elves were having another party. Something seasonal, something to do with being in the middle of summer. They celebrated nothing so often that it was like being back in Midland during wartime. He smiled wistfully at the thought. Nothing would ever really feel like that again.
Roderick, Magnifico, and the children were most likely down in the thick of it and Casca was with Farnese, nowhere near ready to brave a crowd, or so he’d heard, so Serpico probably wasn’t far from them. That left Guts with only his sword for company. He was sitting on a hill away from the crowds and watching the sunset, close enough to hear the music, far enough to avoid polite hellos.
The song lilted in a slow one-two-three rhythm, and Guts couldn’t seem to refocus his mind elsewhere. They’d spent the rest of the afternoon dancing and stumbling and teasing each other. Guts had picked it up fairly easily after all, though he’d exaggerated his clumsiness to draw out the learning process. To make Griffith laugh.
Once he’d managed to smoothly twirl Griffith two different ways, flinging his hair around his head like a halo, the sun was nearly below the horizon and they’d called it a day.
He hadn’t bothered to show up to that ball anyway. He wondered, now, if Griffith had missed him. But then, two weeks after that, nothing and everything changed, and he’d been well on his way to making the biggest mistake of his life. One night in a thousand didn’t really matter.
Looking back, there was something about that period of only a little over a month, after they’d met Zodd for the first time and before Guts had overheard those world-changing words, that felt unreal. Dream-like. Surely he hadn’t been as happy as he remembered. Surely it wasn’t possible for him to feel as… at home as he thought he’d felt then.
After all, if he had felt so damn cozy with the Hawks why had nothing more than a few words made him feel so lost and out of place? But then - hadn’t it been only a few words that had planted that contentment in his chest?
For your sake.
After their final attempt Guts had suddenly dipped Griffith as deeply as he could, just to get a reaction - a gasp, wide eyes, a mock glare - and instead Griffith had closed his eyes and gone where Guts’ hands took him easily, kicking up a foot for added flair and trusting Guts to take all of his weight.
His rose-coloured lips were parted slightly and bent in a tiny smile.
And Guts hadn’t even considered kissing them, back then.
It seemed absurd in hindsight. He’d spent hours dancing with the most beautiful man he or anyone else had ever known, and never once had the thought crossed his mind. And now, four years later, he couldn’t drive the thought away.
What would it have felt like, to close those last few inches of distance? Griffith’s lips had always looked so soft. Guts had noticed that, even though he’d never connected it to the possibility of kissing them. He’d noticed his lips, his eyes the colour of a winter sky, his gently curling hair that fell over his shoulders like the foam of a waterfall, his lithe body, his long legs, his wiry arms and the diamond muscle under his shoulder blades.
Would it have changed anything?
If he’d done it, if he’d kissed Griffith, maybe that day when he’d learned how to dance, or maybe after an early morning sparring session, as they sat together, leaning against each other and catching their breaths, or maybe during a celebratory night of drinks, one of those times when the stars shone bright above them and they found themselves wandering away from the rest, to a quiet corner or empty tent, just to relax and talk and enjoy each others’ company - if Guts had kissed him, and if Griffith had kissed him back, wouldn’t he have stayed?
Guts slammed his fist against the tree at his back.
What the hell did any of it matter? Griffith was gone. All that was left was an empty shell. Maybe, maybe - maybe it would’ve changed everything, or maybe it would’ve changed nothing. Maybe he was deluding himself, working his brain into pointless tangles and it didn’t matter because Casca was wrong and Griffith never wanted him like that. Maybe he would’ve been the one to change his mind and push Griffith away. Maybe they would’ve started fucking and Guts still would’ve overheard that damn conversation with Charlotte and decided to leave.
Maybe he’d be right here, right now anyway, and the only difference would be a memory to go with his insistent imagination.
translated into my language, when the guts touched griffith, griff said "I will never forgive you!" but then I read that in english it is "never again with you" and now I don't understand what it means
I might have an explanation for this actually lol. From what I’ve heard apparently when the chapter was first released he did say something like “I’ll never be able to forgive you again,” but Miura cut that line in later releases, like with the full volume. So maybe your translation is based on the earlier version?
personally I like both versions but I can see why Miura might’ve wanted to leave it more open-ended and ambiguous. “Never again with you” gives me a nice vibe of Griffith like, simultaneously desperately needing to separate himself and being terrified of separating himself from Guts, like mentally begging Guts not to touch him in that moment bc he knows it’ll send him over the edge into… something he can’t bear, something he’ll have to try to escape.
Miura straight up admits multiple times that he doesn't outline the plot of Berserk, but that things just fall into place for him. Two examples are Casca living past the eclipse and Femto and the Moonlight Boy sharing the same body. With this in mind, do you think he has a resolute end to Berserk planned out? I mean, would his assistants know the ending he wants if he dies before completing it? Or would his publisher just order a specific ending? 🤔
Good question. I do think he knows some stuff pretty far in advance, but I doubt he has it all planned out. Like eg he ofc knew the Eclipse would happen since the start of the Golden Age, it’s just some details about it that changed. He’s talked about not having an ending in mind back in 2000, but it’s been a long time since then so it wouldn’t surprise me if he has an outline in mind by now, with leeway for details.
I at least think he’s had a plan for Skull Knight, the behelit, Casca, the armour, moonlight boy, elfhelm, basically all the stuff that gets lumped into the foreshadow-y chapters together, since the end of the Conviction arc, and maybe even earlier.
Liiiiiiiiike idk I’m no writer lol, but there’s been so much v deliberate and pointed foreshadowing that I can only assume Miura has a purpose for it and isn’t just throwing stuff at the wall to sort out later. The quotes I’ve seen from him where he’s talked about kinda flying by the seat of his pants do seem to suggest to me a balance between keeping ideas and concepts loose and throwing some stuff out to pick up on later (eg the demon fetus) vs having a goal to write towards, at least within a single arc (eg griffguts’ inevitable breakup).
Like eg I’d guess that he probably didn’t plan Luca’s return in Falconia very far in advance, but I’m sure he planned on Rickert rejecting Griffith with the ‘you’re not my commander, old Griff was’ bit since Hill of Swords at least.
But yeah all that said I have no idea what would happen if he died before Berserk was completed. I’d hope it would remain unfinished with maybe a best case scenario of some notes getting released or something, but idk what would actually be likely to happen in practical terms.
One day i’ll get their faces right.
— you may delete the following rant but please keep the line before this.
There is always that series which you avoided successfully for years bc you know it will make you sad. And then there is always that one friend who watched it recently and makes you watch/read it too and you think sure why not i’m an adult i can handle that and THEN THEY DRAG YOU TO HELL BY YOUR FUCKING HAIR AND OVER AN ARMADA OF LEGO AND YOU ARE STILL IN YOUR PJS OMG
also I bring up the comparison between Guts’ declaration of war post-Eclipse and Griffith’s promrose hall friendship criteria speech all the time lol and I only just noticed while answering that last ask that there’s another great comparison in chapter 130:
Those 2 panels are on the same page and Guts musing about how he declared this war himself is a response to Guts remembering leaving the Hawks. Which of course is just more of the same old:
I always just brushed over that page so I just didn’t notice that Guts himself is straight up going “Huh, I actually have been pursuing my dream this whole time haven’t I? Wait… that’s a bad thing!”
hey just wondering, is ur username a reference to that panel of griffith on the hill of swords??
this panel basically epitomizes my hopes for berserk so it felt fitting for a username lol
Do you think there is anything Griffith could do at this point to stop Guts from his revenge quest? It's highly unlikely that it would happen in the context of the story, but I'm just curious if there could be another way. Would Guts be capable to forget Griffith at this point?
lol ngl I legit think that NGriff showing up and just saying “Hey so turns out I actually failed my feelings test on the Hill of Swords, I’m still in love with you after all, wanna join the Hawks again?” would do it. Guts would spend 2 seconds wondering if he’s fucking with his head and then Griffith would Look at him and Guts would be like, “yeah.”
Or yk, just “I realized I still want you, Guts.” boom, friendship ended with revenge, now Griffith is my best friend again.
I actually completely think that Guts’ revenge campaign was like, half-assed at best, not something he’s ever been genuinely committed to, and pretty much just a way to get Griffith’s attention again. I have some posts that get into that point further, but basically it’s in the way Guts can’t finish his “when I see him again I’ll-” thought most of the time, it’s in how he still sees Femto/NGriff as a True Light, it’s in how he forgets his urge to kill, it’s in how the moments that really upset Guts post-Eclipse are when he sees Femto and NGriff again and they say “lol idc about you anymore,” how Guts fucking moped about Griffith abandoning him after the Hill of Swords, like, this is not a dude who is actually committed to killing this guy.
Like Guts is not ideologically or morally opposed to NGriff. He doesn’t care about Falconia or Fantasia, he’s not out to protect people from evil overlord Griffith or w/e lol. And he’s not even avenging Casca and the rest of the Hawks - he tells himself he is, but in chapter 130 he pretty much admits to himself that he’s just lashing out.
Guts wants 2 things in his life: to kill shit when he’s mad and for Griffith to look at him, and his revenge campaign was his attempt to get both.
SO BASICALLY YEAH I think Griffith admitting Guts still has his attention would completely derail the revenge thing.
I mean to be perfectly fair I think to make it work in fic or something Guts would still have like, a lot of inner conflict lol. You could make a p good argument that the “get Griffith’s positive attention” ship has sailed thanks to the eclipse rape as well as NGriff saying he has no regrets (tho considering how easily Miura ignores it when it comes to eg the aforementioned Guts moping when NGriff takes off it’s also easy to argue the opposite imo), and now the only attention Guts wants is for Griff to look into his eyes as Guts stabs him or w/e. Personally if I was writing this scenario I’d take an extra step and make Guts go beast of darkness and do something unforgiveable like murder Isidro before this happens so he can go “fuck it I’m a monster too now we might as well be monsters together.” Just because I think it would be easier to justify as in character lol. Miura seems to ignore the eclipse rape half the time while writing the post-eclipse story but fandom doesn’t really so, yeah.
But yeah idk it’s not a hard sell for me that if Griffith admitted he’s still hung up on Guts then Guts’ urge to kill him would disappear, never to be seen again.
BUT ALL THAT SAID re: that last bit, no I don’t think Guts could actually get over Griffith and forget him. My answer so far is only shifting Guts’ obsession back to wanting to be Griffith’s bff/fuck him, because I don’t think there’s a single thing Griffith could do to make Guts like, lose interest in him and move on.
He’s been obsessing over a single glance across a vast plain since he got on the boat. Maybe if he’d never laid eyes on him again after Griffith’s “I am over you, and that, my friend, is what they call closure” moment on the Hill of Swords he’d have had a tiny chance of moving on eventually, but imo Griffith looking at him intently is a one hit KO for Guts’ chances of getting over him. Like idk maybe if he encountered Griffith one more time only for Griffith to reiterate being totally over him for real and then they never saw each other again and also Casca ran away with Farnese and he never saw her again either eventually Guts would fuck Serpico and start to move on? But even then he’d still know Griffith is out there in the world doing stuff ~where his sword can reach~ and he’d probably hear about him occasionally since he’s now ruler of remaining civilization so…
Mmmaybe if NGriff went back to being Femto on the astral plane out of sight and out of mind and inhuman and unreachable? Or if he, like, died and Guts could maybe finally start to mourn the human version of him since he’s fully gone now? Even then it would take years and years and a lot of positive influences around him imo, and I still wouldn’t bet on Guts moving on lol, he’d be more likely to go back to aimlessly fighting monsters to cope with his feelings til something killed him.
Do you think guts would have been happy if he settled down with casca? Like what's the point of the becoming griffith's equal if he just was going to be with someone else away from him?,... I just love guts he is a confused cinamon roll and so am i, (btw i love your meta so much ,it makes me feel vindicated, thank you)
Thank you! and yeah lol Guts really is just a confused kid trying his best :’)
I feel like Guts’ ultimate goal was always to eventually finally feel like he’s accomplished enough and he’s good enough and come back to Midland to settle down and be Griffith’s bff properly this time, not as his soldier but just as like an independent impressive heroic dude or whatever lol. And after his chat with Judeau he kind of added Casca to that “good enough” criteria, like if she falls in love with him it’ll be proof or at least evidence that he’s accomplished his goal.
Which could mean that by the time he actually has sex with Casca and offers to let her come along he’s already stuck in the dream catch 22, where oops your criteria for Good Enough keeps getting higher and higher and you’re never actually able to finally quit and retire in contentment feeling like you did enough, you’re stuck persuing your goal forever now, because accomplishing arbitrary goals isn’t a real solution to feelings of inadequacy.
Idk if that was intended but I definitely want to take that away from Guts seemingly accomplishing his this-means-I’m-Griff’s-equal-now criteria by getting together with Casca and then still not feeling like he’s good enough and deciding to leave again.
So like… kind of yes? If he ever did put down his sword and settle down it would’ve indicated that he was finally happy, but like, he was never going to do that with Casca, he always framed a relationship with Casca as a stepping stone to Being Griffith’s Equal, rather than a source of contentment itself. By the time he actually had sex with her, being with Casca wasn’t settling down as Griffith and Charlotte’s counterpart couple, it was taking her with him while he kept pursuing his dream goal to become Griffith’s equal.
(Conversely maybe his goal was always to be a knight errant type roaming around and only visiting Griffith, and taking Casca with him was what he always would’ve done instead of settling down with her. But either way it’s made p clear that he didn’t feel like he’d accomplished his equality goal yet when he was asking her to leave with him, so yeah.)
And if, say, in an AU where Griff never ended up in a torture chamber he ever actually did feel like he accomplished that goal, moved back to Midland, hooked up with Casca, and settled down as Griffith’s bff, well, I’d want to read the fic where they inevitably cheat on their wives with each other lol.
What do you think would happen with Guts if he does manage to kill Griffith? I feel like if this driving force in his life would vanish he wouldn't really have anything to live for anymore. What about Griffith? We know little about his inner world, but would you just assume he would carry on with his Falconia plan? (I'm more interested in what you would like to see, than what would be likely for Miura to write lol)
With Griffith I think my favourite and most believable imo thing to see in like, a very bleak ending where he killed Guts, would be him continuing on with building his Falconia empire BUT with the implication that he missed a final chance to… move on from that and live a different, more fulfilling life? Even as NeoGriffith, like the idea that even then, after the Eclipse and after becoming a demon and then the incarnation of humanity and agent of fate, his life still wasn’t set completely in stone because Guts is a wildcard. Even after everything there was still a chance that they could come back together and find some more meaning and value in their existences, somehow.
Like, say there’s a 3rd duel and Griff has admitted to himself that he still has feelings and he sort of resignedly tells Guts he failed his test on the Hill of Swords after all during a momentary pause in their fight. (And you would be able to argue that he only told Guts to throw him off or w/e, bc it’ll be ambiguous, but really it’s because some part of him is still desperately reaching for some bridge across to Guts even if most of him believes it’s more than futile.)
And then it does fuck Guts up and he lets Griffith stab him because he tends to do that when he’s suddenly full of feelings, and you get a close up of Griffith’s eyes widening in horror, and when Guts falls he falls to his knees with him, then Guts dies and after a little while Griffith stands up and starts walking away.
Also there would probably be more ~True Light~ symbolism and stuff leading up to this duel to, yk, sell it. Like there’d be some build up, it wouldn’t just be suddenly feelings followed by death lol. But like, I think all you’d really need is Griffith admitting this to Guts (which, nicely, is also something he never did in the Golden Age so it’d have a bit of a conclusive feel to it) and Guts responding in a way that reveals his own feelings, and as far as I’m concerned the implication that they still have choices would be automatic. Though you could also supplement that with like, another blatant plot point showcasing apostle(s) that aren’t slaves to their monsterism, that even after a sacrifice you can still choose humanity, maybe Guts coming back from his armour without magical assistance, maybe more suggestions of certain people changing fate in small ways, all that shit that adds up to this overall vibe of missed opportunities.
And as for Guts, idk I can see a few different good possibilities.
I like the idea of Guts killing Griffith and then walking into a crowd of apostles and letting them kill him, the same way he did with the wolves after he killed Gambino but now his instinctive struggle to survive is gone and his suicide is successful.
I also really really like the idea of Casca being the one to kill him afterwards, and again maybe Guts letting her. In this case maybe with the implication that he and Griffith are the same, they both ruined Casca’s life entirely because of their obsession with each other (and there’s still room for Guts to clash with Casca further to set this up), and if Casca is cheated out of her revenge against Griffith then killing Guts is the next best thing.
But if Guts lives afterwards then I think what I’d like to see most is him becoming Skull Knight and/or Zodd 2.0, back to wandering battlefields and basically killing indiscriminately for no real reason other than it’s what he does until he can find someone strong enough to take him out. I think I actually might like this scenario best because it really emphasizes his whole ~throw himself into danger and struggle to live no matter what~ thing as a negative. And I think Guts dying/letting himself die would actually have more positive implications (dying as a human rather than a monster by putting down his sword finally, yk) that idk if I really want if he’s just killed Griffith.
ty for the question!