Question: What's your opinion and general point of view about madara and how he is taken from the fans Are you madara fan as well ?
I’m a pretty huge fan of Madara, yes.
I think that as an antagonist, it was a well-written character on which an interesting debate can arise on whether the end justifies the means, or how the oppression and injustice of a system can generate a monster that, although it rebels against such oppression and wants to change the world, use methods similar or equals to those taught by the system against which he wants to rebel.
Now, the main problem with Madara is that, although it made sense to present himself as a martyr -given the mistreatment his people suffered at the hands of Konoha/the Senjü-, and that he decides to end a system that was created with his help, he could not see/experience the totality of the problems generated by the system.
His intervention is poetic, yes, the premise that the “creator” turns against his creature is always something striking as long as it is well sustained, but as for the idea of rebellion in itself, it made more sense to me for Obito to be the base of the revolution and not just the tip of the iceberg.
Obito lived more in the flesh the inconsistencies and problems of the policies on which the shinobi world is ruled, he lived and died oppressed by his own village, the war and even his friends (Kakashi did not change his methods -that if even they were questioned by Minato, they were not sufficiently punished as to prevent him from going on a crucial mission with people he considered disposable- until the moments before his death). Do not think I forgot that Madara lived similar things, it’s just that the fact that Obito lived those injustices -even worse, if we consider that they used children as cages for the Bijüs and were financing a war for political and economic power, decades after the period of “savagery” of the war between clans, makes him more congruent as the face of the revolution.
An interesting premise, in the sense that Obito could have been the one to continue what Madara tried to start.
Anyway, I’m not sure how the fandom sees him because I tend to follow people who like -or tolerates- Madara, but you probably mean that a lot of people (ergo, this happens in almost all fandoms) tends to see the characters as two-dimensional. To see them as “good” or “bad”, without entering into debates of the style that Madara presents with his introduction:
1) Its aims are noble, to eliminate a system that oppresses, destroys and assassinates innocent people in order to maintain/obtain economic, military and/or political power; but his methods are questionable.
Not only from the point of view of generating a war that although in its beginnings is not planned to affect civilians, in the long run, it will affect the non-shinobi population in some way (there are cities that undoubtedly depend economically or socially on aid military); but also because encloses shinobi who are willing to give their lives for the system in the same capsule that young chünin who were sent to the struggle unwillingly, who became ninja because they did not know better, or because they were looking for an economic improvement.
Which means that they’re fighting against a system that transforms kids into weapons, by fighting against children who are already considered weapons.
Are those actions forgivable if a long-term improvement is sought?
2) Madara does something that not every other gray, complex character does, and is overlooked by the most of the fandom in order to focus on his antagonist characteristics given by the author: He attacks the root of the problem.
Madara is not content with attacking those shinobi/missing-nin who are considered bad by the rest of society. He is not content with destroying Dänzo or eliminating the rest of the Senjü or Sarutobi clan (responsible for the oppression of the Uchiha), he goes beyond personal disputes and declares a war to the entire system, not to a village in particular. He is not interested in “taking care” of the personifications of the problem, but of the problem itself.
His rivalry and obsession with Hashirama makes sense and is not a deviation of his intentions given that both were the ones who created the system. One wants to defend it (Hashirama), one wants to destroy it (Madara).
Let’s take a look to other gray, complex character from other anime: Light Yagami (Death Note), for example, does the exact opposite. He tries to erase the personifications of the problem, and not the problem itself, which is the capitalist economic system and its representatives. While there is some control over mobsters, businessmen are a little more ignored by Kira as long as they do not do particularly criminal things like kill or pollute. Labor exploitation continues, as does poverty. Therefore, there will always be thieves who steal out of necessity, so Light’s idea of the perfect world was never going to be achieved.
3) Is Madara the personification of the system or the personification of the anti-system? Are they even separate issues to begin with? He uses exactly the same tools the system will use in order to win (that is, start a war, make a long-term plan in order to gain military power and financing), so is there any chance that the changes after the war will be complete? Or will he “change” the system by creating his own, which will have similarities to the previous one? Is there any possibility of fighting the shinobi system using other tactics that are not those created by the system itself, which had already been proven effective? And better, is even possible for Madara to think of a tactic to destroy the system that has no correlation to the world he grew up with and later on helped create?
A lot of questions, multiple answers.
4) To what extent one is a victim or victimizer? Where is the line drawn to become one or the other? Is it possible to be both? Are the injustices experienced in previous stages of your life aspects that redeem your actions in the present? Beware of the answer, because that will depend on how you will condone or not, not only Madara’s actions but also those of every other character as well.
- Does the rejection and tragic background of Naruto justify the fact he emotionally manipulates his friends/enemies even many years after those events and after being accepted by everyone? Does it justify his attempt to control Sasuke’s life and actions?
- Does the insecurity and bullying Sakura lived during her childhood redeem the fact that she downgrades her best friend in order to feel better about herself?
- Does the trauma Kakashi experienced as a child justifies the fact that he completely ignored two of his three students and tried to manipulate and control Sasuke’s life, actions, and thoughts?
- Does the pain that Asuma’s death inflicted on Shikamaru redeem his thirst for blood and his cruelty to Hidan, whom he did not kill but buried alive? Or his ignorance to his comrades’ feelings, focusing on only his own?
- Does the conflict and long-time rivalry between the Uchiha and Senjü justify the segregation the firsts suffered at the hands of the seconds, after years of the pact between both families? Does it justify Tobirama’s hatred and/or distrust to the point which he completely dismissed the idea of a democracy in order to put his student (a non-Uchiha) in a position of power? Does it justify Hirüzen’s own dismissal of the Uchiha?
- Does the killing of his entire clan at the hands of his brother justify Sasuke’s actions?
- Does the loss of his best friend and the destruction of his home redeem Pain’s actions?
Every character is a debate of its own, and many of us will believe that some of them are redeemable, while others aren’t, the big question here is, why some of them are justified and others are not? Is personal preference or we base or proclamations on the gravity of their actions? Do we take into account their long-term goals to condemn them or not?
There’re probably more points to debate about his character, like him or not, Madara is one of the few characters that were actually very well written/thought by Kishimoto. He was granted a level of fidelity to his ideals that was not granted to any other character (who finally succumbed to the manipulation of Naruto), and therefore they had to eliminate him completely from the plot since he would never have succumbed to the system against which he rebelled.