I am three weeks into this semester and already I scream into the void,
“please…….. I just want,, napp, hnng, ,, ”
quick help, how do i communicate to the pretty goth girls i see on campus that I’m NOT staring at them to judge them but that I am, in fact, mentally picturing them as the sexy goth vampire gf to my pink bubblegum princess.
as an introvert i ask the heavens,
wHEN ?!????!! is the EXTROVERTED main character who is LOUD and YELLOW and ANNOYING AS FUCK going to show up and aDOPT ME????! COMPLETELY AGAINST MY WILL, but will make me fall in love with them as they bring literal sunshine into my life?
oh my god the emos— the eMO KIDS ARE FIGHTING GUYS. THERE IS A PANIC IN THIS DISCO.
the way I simultaneously needed and did not need to hear Steve from Blue’s Clues tell me we’re still friends 20 years later
grape delsym is actually so good
@frigatea 🤝 @actually-scaramouche
From anon: what was the vmin related ask you were talking about
Lol. Is anyone still thinking about this?
The wonderful filter for "ship noise" created by the 24/7 outrage nature of social media is to just leave it for a week or two (convenient when you're perpetually "behind" on BTS news now like me—which, honestly, I'm not really ashamed of, I prefer treating them as my Magic Shop as opposed to my Pied Piper—) and see if anyone still cares. If not then it's not really that important. Anyway!
I have a closet of half-answers but I'll pull this one out to finish and publish. Apologies for where I cut corners, I wrote this half on an airplane and don't really feel like editing. The ask:
From anon: “Speaking about Film Viewer. Don’t you think “He might seem silly/random, but V is an honest kid.” from Jimin is also denying a romantic possibility? I just can’t imagine calling your s/o an “honest kid”. It sounds like he’s caring mom of a little weirdo lmao.”
A commenter on my previous post about the Bubblegum talk basically noted “all this for a meaningless game for some meaningless merch,” which honestly… lol, I agree. But as the Pandora’s box is open, I might as well talk about this, because actually 1) the answer reveals something quite meaningful about the Vmin relationship, and 2) the ask gives a very common mischaracterization of the Vmin dynamic that is a giant, giant pet peeve for me.
Here are two translations of what Jimin said to Taehyung (for consistency’s sake, the first is Claire’s translation again, the other is from an alternate translator linked by the BTS reddit whom as I've talked about before is one of my fave gen OT7 spaces):
My thoughts on this:
1. Jimin is repeating a sentiment he’s told us in various other ways before.
2. I genuinely love this sentiment, I’m in no way disappointed by it.
3. I don’t think it denies a romantic possibility, no. And even if you think it makes a romantic reading of their relationship less likely…. so… what?
4. I find the characterization of Taehyung a “weirdo” and Jimin “a mom” and their relationship some one-sided care-taking dynamic incredibly reductive. You, in fact, literally ignored what Jimin said in this sentence, as well as what they’ve told us going back a literal decade.
Did you sent this ask in as some sort of “gotcha” moment and that I’d be devastated to think they might not be romantic…? You must think I’m a different type of shipper.
Also a lightning round of other asks about this Bubblegum talk at the end:
Q: You were harsh on the previous anon, I thought they had a point
Q: Sorry I worded my previous ask badly
Q: I don't know why there's so much debate about this, isn't it pretty clear-cut contextually?
By the way, I am closed for asks on this. Any additional asks about this will be deleted. Let's talk about other content. Not content that, as a commentor wrote, Jimin probably wrote (collectively, for all 7 members) in 3 minutes flat, lol.
1. One thing to note about Jimin's comment is that Jimin isn’t saying anything he hasn’t actually said multiple times already.
Jimin's honestly remarkably consistent, it's one of the ways that you can tell his sincerity.
Do you remember what Jimin said in Let’s BTS only in early 2020?
"[Taehyung's] very unique when you first get to know him. He's very playful and unpredictable. I used to think he was like a manhwa character [Drift: the official translation was cartoon, but it's actually manga/comic book, or literally, manhwa. In other words, someone from a children's work, with a personality that's straightforward, the implication that it's a "flat", shallowly dramatic/entertaining without substance]
But I got to think a lot about Taehyung lately. And I think he's the most down-to-earth guy out of all of us. [Drift: Another translation I read for this was "humane" out of all of us."]
He seems like a regular guy. He's honest, and he never changes."
And do you remember what Jimin said in the Japan Fanclub content, which actually links back to an even older comment he made in 2018 in another piece of Japan content (seriously, Japan is so lucky to have all this content ;_;)?
[In early 2021, by Jimin's hair actually likely filmed in Oct 2020. Drift: note the translation is imperfect, I feel like I remember seeing a different translation but to be frank I can't find it now, close enough meaning]
"What I'm envious about Taehyung-ssi is... he really carries this pure heart, and that pure heart.. He can give it all, just as much as how he'd express himself without being too aware of it."
[On 180729 We Love BTS Japan Talkshow]
"If I talk about something that I respect about him, it would be how he has this unstained purity. This purity is different from being like a kid. I'm sure you guys all know without me explaining. But those aspects of V are very cute to me. And I don't think he even knows this, but there are times it makes us look back and rethink about ourselves. At times, it even gives us strength."
(if you want an extended discussion of just this thoughts-on-bangtan has got you) (If you want to see what other cute compliments Tae got, in longer form than this half-joking vibe of the bubblegum talk, see the video with all the members' comments about Taehyung, and a quick google search will get you all the members. It's funny how so many things have changed, and yet some things stay the same)
Do you see the parallels in what Jimin is saying in all four instances?
In all four, he's essentially saying that while Taehyung's initial first impression is "silly and weird" and it may be easy to dismiss him as only that, in fact Taehyung has a purity Jimin explicitly states is not like that of a child. Tae's purity isn't one of naivety (How could it be? Anyone who thinks so is simply both infantilizing him and not using their critical thinking facilities. He's literally one of the most successful individuals in an incredibly cutthroat industry)—it comes from living life with a genuine and honest heart.
2. I adore that this is how Jimin sees Taehyung, that even in this "joking context", this is what he values about Taehyung, what he wants to share with ARMY about Taehyung.
Seriously, I f***** adore it.
Let's break down why.
First, I just... think it's such a beautiful, true thing that Jimin has captured?
And indeed, as Jimin notes, if you know Taehyung at all and clearly anon you do not as you didn't understand what Jimin was saying, then you understand that indescribable "honesty" or "innocence" Jimin is trying to express.
This is a man who believes in feeling & sharing with ARMY his darkest emotions (see Blue & Grey), in meeting the world with curiosity and empathy (see him talking about the grasshopper fairytale), in taking joy in the smallest things (see “Tata Mic” which I'd link but I'm sure you know it lol), in unabashedly sharing his feelings about anyone he loves, whether it's ARMY or his dad or the other BTS members or, well, "I like you most" Jimin.
It is one of the things I love madly about Taehyung - like Jimin, I went through some "relationship development" of thinking of him as some funny, flighty dude to fundamentally shifting my understanding of Taehyung. And I love that Jimin also clearly values it so.
And that brings me to my second point, which is that despite how light-hearted this whole exercise is, what Jimin expressed isn't really so very light at all. In fact, it's incredibly touching.
Like, is there a purer way to love someone than to love their very heart?
And while Jimin certainly took no more than 5 mins max to complete this exercise ... his comment still maps onto these other ones? And while it comes off silly-sweet in one context (Bubblegum Talk), it's much much more intense in the others? What does that tell you?
Obviously, given the consistency of his remarks through the years, the sentiment behind the light joke is a cornerstone of how Jimin sees Taehyung, how he admires and values him.
And if you pause a little bit to think through the implications, you can fully understand why. As I've previously discussed (here for example), Jimin quite obviously has a more guarded, neurotic disposition than Taehyung. He's sincere, of course, but he also filters what he shares, over thinks, over perfects. Of course he would admire Taehyung, who is so different from him in this regard. Especially if we consider how that heart very likely helped Jimin out in critical moments in the past.
Note that Jimin's last quoted comment is mid-2018: "'I don't think he even knows this, but there are times it makes us look back and think about ourselves. At times, it even gives us strength."
Jiimin is using "us" there (or the translation is rendering it as us), but I think it's pretty clear he's talking about himself, because "self-reflection" is generally a solo exercise.
Think about the context then. BTS was collectively burnt out and considering disbanding, Jimin was struggling with finding meaning in his chosen career (according to his vlog), he was struggling to navigate his different personas and be true to himself (discussed in Festa 2019 and obliquely in Filter).
Truly, it's not a stretch to me—in fact, I'm like 90% certain—that Taehyung and his "pure" heart helped give Jimin strength by helping Jimin reflect on how he was treating himself and learn to love himself (... which, uh, not to make myself into some sort of Sugadamus, but that's literally something I commented on almost a year ago).
[Also if you're thinking about how Taehyung holds incredibly close to his heart that moment post-dumpling fight where Jimin told him "I want to be your strength" and it unleashed a "thousand arrows charged with pent-up emotions" in his heart... you're not the only one ;_; They are So. Balanced. You can't make this nonsense up]
[Stage whispers: And look how happy knowing Jimin feels this way about him makes Taehyung look]
3. No, I don’t think it denies a romantic possibility.
I don’t know what “kid” is in Korean, but it’s not like Jimin is implying Taehyung is his kid (he obviously isn’t, and they don’t have that dynamic either, I’ll speak to that below)—the usage of “kid” feels light-hearted to me. I’m not going to force it to support some romantic reading or explain it away, I just think it’s pretty insignificant and supports neither a romantic nor platonic interpretation?
And honestly… why would you base ship feelings off of what one of my readers rightfully called an insignificant comment in an incredibly obscure piece of merch? Remember my Significance Bar? This is so far from it it’s literally on the ground.
4. But sure, if you want to concede that “kid” isn’t the first word I’d use for an s/o, then yeah, it isn’t. So what?
If you think that this one measly sentence makes them 0% likely to be romantic (which would be kind of absurd, because see above, but you do you), then uh… go right ahead and believe that? What, do you want me to “concede” that before I thought they were 80% likely to be romantic, now I think it’s 75%, lol?
Why does this matter to me, when I’ve already said that romantic or platonic, Vmin is special? That I don’t really care and I think others shouldn’t either, because either way, their relationship is still magic and stardust?
[Though, for the record that is somehow confusing to people, I still think they’re more likely to be romantic than platonic primarily because of the songs (4 O’Clock, Scenery, Sweet Night); the history; and the quasi-romantic gestures. Reject recency bias]
4. Let's unpack all the nonsense characterizations that wen't into your ask.
Your ask basically implies these 3 things that I am very aware is common amongst fandom/shipperverse in particular, but that annoy me a ton (they're in line with "Jimin is flirty" and "Yoongi is savage" and "Jungkook is a lonely blushing schoolboy"):
First. Taehyung is “a little weirdo”
Second, Jimin is a “mom”
Third, the Vmin relationship is one dominated by this one-sided caretaking dynamic.
This characterization is one that downplays their relationship, in my opinion. It’s incredibly reductive and honestly a little offensive, because they’ve literally told us none of these things are true. Have you not been listening?
The literal point of Jimin's comment was to say that Taehyung does have great depth behind that first-impression silliness, and there you are asserting that again? And I hope my quotes of other instances he's said similar things in serious contexts show you that Jimin means what he says, so stop saying that. Especially when Taehyung has explicitly stated he dislikes being called weird/alien, and that he's not "weird", he just has a different perspective from people (I can't find the source, but whatever, I think this is common enough knowledge). Which again, as Jimin told you, is incredibly valuable and precious.
[Also note Tae apparently dislikes being called alien except when Jimin does it, all sweet and fond and possessive in Friends, cue his cute little wave and "Anyeong~~~" every time lol]
I'm not going to stay too long on this idea of "Jimin as mom." As you may already know, I find the feminization of Jimin in shipperverse incredibly irksome. Jimin is not a woman, women do not have sole possession of care as an expression of love or an act of labor, and I hate gender essentialism.
And finally, the idea that their relationship is one-sided? Absurd.
We've seen glimpses of their two-sided care, such as in th8s Burn the Stage deleted clip. But honestly, we see so little of their private relationship we should just take their word for it, and Jimin has literally told you that other people's impression of Taehyung not caring for him in return, that their relationship is one-sided, is false. Whatever it looks like from the outside (aka from your perspective, outsider].
"I don’t know what others might think. They might say that I only tend to Taehyung and not him. But he makes me feel good and touches my heart often." -- Jimin, BV2
[If you're like, "Wow, this is old stuff, cite something new," I'm sorry to tell you this... but uh, lifelong relationship have foundations? They've literally told us they've gotten closer? Why would something they told us previously no longer be true? If anything, it's probably more true now than before since we're post Friends, post Sweet Night, post Let's BTS]
Anyway. To wrap it all up... let's end with these asks:
From anon: do you actually think vmin is real? like deep down do you actually believe it?
From anon: Why'd you say the Vmin relationship is different?
I think it was lesbian-vmin who I first remember putting it like this: What do you mean by "real"? Do you mean, "Are they romantic?" Or do you mean, "Do they hold a privileged and exclusive position in each other's lives based on bone-deep love and a great sense of fate and commitment?"
Because if the former, then you'll find many vminnies range on the spectrum of "very likely" to "quite likely" to "maybe", and if you read my blog, you know where I am on the spectrum. And I'm not playing some long-game con or trolling you all and gleefully laughing at my laptop, I promise you, haha. But of course, none of us can know, because we're not in bed with them. And honestly, it's kind of beside the point? Because, uh....
*Looks at my masterlist*
*Stares at the camera, The Office style*
From anon: Hi, I was the anon that sent in the ask about "to the hyung's, JK is my dongsaeng". I think I did not word my post well, but of course that statement would include jimin as well! I think when I first read the translations, I literally read "JK in hyung's eyes... he's just my younger brother" as a blanket statement for all the hyungs, like in the hyungs' eyes, he is a younger brother. Obs, again this includes jimin, but I get how that would go against the point of the exercise in describing (1/2) [Drift: I never got the second part, but I imagine they were going to say something like, "describing what the writer (Jimin) thought about the person (JK)," since that was my concluding point in the post.]
That makes sense, it sounds like we're in alignment. But then I think we can just conclude that we misinterpreted the translation and didn't contextualize it. There's still no real debate to be had, it's just... a mistake.
From aon: Hey! This is regarding one of the anon asks in ur last post on translation. So i follow a few ot7 translators like soochoi/ doolset/ sel etc. I m not sure which one but i remember when the bubblegum talk video was released one of them translated it as 'in hyungs pov he is just my dongsaeng' meaning for each hyung jk was just like a little brother and each of them thinks 'he is just my little brother'. Now i personally dont care and didnt want to discuss it. But i thought you were quite harsh on your last anon. Its possible they saw a similar translation too and interpreted it just like i did. I do want to say that i dont know korean so i m not saying u are wrong but just that such translations were going around too. If i can find the trans i will link it in another ask.
*points above* Your translation is literally the other translation I quoted, I'm pretty sure...? Did you read my post too fast? It's not a different translation, it's a different "(mis-)interpretation." You're thinking of "my dongsaeng" as a modifier for hyungs versus "my dongsaeng" as a modifier for the speaker (Jimin). In my original post, I explained my reasoning for why it's pretty clearly a modifier for the speaker, Jimin.
And quite frankly, I don't think I was harsh. I stated my perspective, to an ask sent to me asking for my perspective. If someone tells me that they read 1997 as 1991, but from context it clearly refers to Jungkook's birthday, I'm going to tell you the number is 7 not 1 and I'm not really sure what supports the reading of it as 1, and I don't think there's any debate to be had. If you prefer this other "interpretation" or a "translation" that says it's 1991, then... do so? Just, as I said, be careful of translations in bad faith and be clear to yourself why you accept one meaning over another.
There's no real need to send in asks to sway me, I'm not some authority in the space, haha.
From anon: I'm sorry but I really think some people are not only taking advantage of the fact that many fans don't speak Korean, but also that many do not speak English as their first language. JM saying that the other members seem to think JK looks like his real younger brother doesn't sound 'suggestive' at all. Suggestive of what anyway? Does it contextually make sense that he would publicly hint at them being wrong about the relationship? Their closest friends who are like brothers to them as well and who spend the most time with them? Why on earth would he do that? [Drift: Bolding because... yup.]
As an English speaker if I say that my friends or family members seem to see one of my other friends as my real younger brother / sister, it would simply be me commenting on how close and familial we are such that other close friends/family comment on it. Over thinking something that obvious is just shipper madness.
The fact is, no matter how you twist it, JM is saying he and JK are so close that the other members seem to think that they are like real brothers. It's sweet especially because JM's actual younger brother is JK's age. Twisting that to any other meaning is just like how people twisted Tae's response to that obvious shipper on weverse... Dishonest.
There's more than one reason I used that screenshot of Taehyung's infamous "Get out of your head, it's not good in there."
sketch dump ft empires!geminitay, bubbline, my centaurworldsona, and one of my mha ocs
me making a list of traits to shove onto my next OC like
BUBBLEGUM TALK X BTS
Bubblegum Talk | V
from.RM: Taehyung diligently works out with me these days.. it makes me think, how much cooler could he get if he has the body, too?
from.Jin: I walked into V's room because he was playing games but he immediately left for the gym so I’m sad about that
from.SUGA: Taehyung is the #2 funniest person these days
from.j-hope: Taehyung has such clean-cut features,, so cool,,he’s so good-looking,,
from.Jimin: He might seem silly/random, but V is an honest kid
from.V: I like V
from.Jung Kook: V has a pretty mole just under his eye
From anon 1: actually translators have been going back and forth on the translation and there are like 27 different versions at this point which has been a source of debate on twitter (because people like to twist jimins words for whatever narrative they want be it jkers or tkkers or ot6) so i wouldn’t say that part of your analysis is for sure factual because of the sheer amount of translations i’ve seen. that being said of course jkk aren’t in a romantic relationship but a lot of people like to downplay what they do have and that’s not cool either. i think some people in the past in your ccs are too quick to try to downplay their relationship due to bias
From anon 2: No JM DID NOT say hyungs think jk is like my actual brother. Don’t be like TKK. I enjoy being a Vmin supporter cause we don’t lie & exaggerate and thats what you’re doing to JM. Korean OT7s said JM said in hyungs eyes they SEEM to think jk is my dongsaeng. Is it suggestive, yes. Do we know what he means, no. He did not say little brother/actual brother. You have a big platform don’t use it to spread mistranslations. We don’t know exactly what JM meant, but tell the truth. jM never said brother
It's kind of funny to me to hear people say I have a big platform, haha. It's like, 250 followers on an obscure social media backwater app. But sure.
Anon 1: I don't know what translators you're using, but I trust Claire (@btstranslation7) as a translator. She has translated everything and for a long time, and as far as I know has no ship bias. That there's any "debate" about this issue is such a shipperverse thing. There was a lot of debate about "election fraud 2020" too, that doesn't make it a thing. To me, Claire is the BBC, and any shipper translator is, idk, MSNBC or Fox.
Of course there are multiple translations floating around, there are always multiple ways to translate something. It's just who you trust to capture the right context. Again, I trust Claire, and I linked to an alternate translation that correlates with hers. If you trust a different translator, then go right ahead and do so, and you should just be clear to yourself why you trust them more than Claire.
[I will note that I was turned to Claire because my other OT7 ARMY friends rely on her as well, we in fact often wait for her translations (or Sel's, or Bora's before her twt got suspended) to come out to link each other.
I don't even know why acknowledging Jimin having called JK dongsaeng multiple times (including this recent one) and the platonic context in which this word is often used is "downplaying" their relationship [Again, I link in my posts for a reason, please read what I link]
In what universe is calling someone so close they are your family denying they are incredibly important and special to you? How many people that aren't biologically-related to you but are considered family do you have? I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I think JK is incredibly precious to Jimin. I think Jimin obviously admires JK's multifaceted talent, finds his personality endearing, and they spend many goofy fun times together. I don't think j/k is romantic, but that doesn't take away from that bond. And their relationship has literally zero connection to how I feel about Vmin.
Anon 2: I... didn't lie? Did you see I linked my sources? Did you click my sources and come to your own judgment?
I linked to a reputable Korean OT7 translator and her translation -- And she translated Jimin's comment as "The hyungs all think JK is like my actual little brother." I also linked to an alternate translation from another OT7 translator (not as familiar with them, but @zuyuuB appears to be JK-biased), which translated Jimin's comment as, "In the eyes of each hyung, he's just 'my brother.'"
They obviously made translation choices based on their cultural knowledge/understanding and preference, because that's what translators do. Like, one translated "just", the other translated "actual." And one chose to translate "dongsaeng" as "little brother" while the other clearly assumed the little was implied and just translated it as "brother." As far as I know, they're both accurate, and I trust that interpretation of that sentence.
If you want to get "close to the Korean," then yeah, you can just leave the words as, "In the eyes of each hyung, he's just 'my dongsaeng.'" Does not translating dongsaeng change much for you?
Again, dongsaeng is a cultural word like hyung, I've written about the various meanings it can have based on context here (again, please read what I link). But clearly, reliable Korean translators think in context Jimin means little brother rather than younger junior or whatever.
I also read some grammatical explanation that noted Jimin constructed his sentence in a way that carries the meaning of "seems like family", but I'm not Korean so I'm not going to weigh in on that. I'll simply say that reliable translators would have already captured that cultural/grammatical nuance, and indeed that appears to have influenced how Claire rendered her translation.
Again, if you disagree with those translators and their translations, go right ahead—just be clear on what alternate translations you prefer, and why. If you don't speak Korean though, I'd caution you not to be duped, because I'm seeing some straight-up lies or truth-bending. You can go to a Korean friend who's not even an ARMY and see what they think. I also think none of the... "alternate interpretations" (I literally feel like I'm saying "alternate facts," lol) make any sense, for the reasons I've already explained in my original post.
Lastly, Anon 2: if you think I am malicious in this way, I think both of us should no longer read each other. Even if we're in the same ship, you shouldn't read someone you don't trust. And clearly, you don't trust me, and I frankly don't want people who will clearly misconstrue my speech or analysis to read me either.
From anon: Thank you for your recent posts regarding the viewfinders and ship-biased translations. Translators are amazing and I really appreciate them, but it is such a disadvantage at times for people who are not Korean/don't speak Korean to rely on them. As you mentioned, it is important that we realize that they are human, and they also have their own biases. That being said, I read the translation as "to the hyungs, Jk is a dongsaeng" as in to all the hyungs and not even jimin specifically. Thoughts?
Thanks... but I don't think you truly internalized my post? Aren't you doing exacrly what I said not to? I mean... your 'interpretation' is not actually what the reliable translationd says? Both use a possessive 'my' (here's a third that does too), it's clearly part of the Korean and must refer to Jimin the speaker? You can't just drop part of a translation or edit a translation, esp if you don't know the language, and say you "read" a translation that way, isn't that just misquoting? Even if you insist with that reading, why wouldn't 'hyungs' include Jimin who is JK's hyung? Why would he even be saying a sentiment he doesn't agree with, when the whole exercise is about what each member thinks of the member being written about?
Bubblegum Talk 🍬
teehee it's today's song
Marceline is a she/they lesbian. No, I won't elaborate.